In the latest episode of Scaling Today, Yuying Deng speaks with Kannan Chettiar, CEO and co-founder of Avvanz, a company excelling in employee lifecycle management. With operations spanning across six countries and a rapidly scaling team, Kannan shares his journey from his beginnings in Singapore to leading a successful global business.
From thorough background checks to a hybrid onboarding model that combines in-person and virtual elements, Avvanz ensures every new hire is set up for success.
And when it’s time to offboard, their rigorous approach to cybersecurity and equipment handling ensures a smooth, secure transition.
But it’s not all about processes.
Kannan also shares how Avvanz fostered a sense of belonging from day one by using virtual engagement tools and fun, interactive platforms to make every team member feel like they’re part of something bigger.
Here is the transcript of our conversation:
Yuying Deng:
Hi, welcome to Scaling Today, the podcast where we explore how companies scale and the future of work. I'm your host, Yuying Deng, and today we have a fascinating episode lined up for you. Our guest today is Kannan Chettiar, the CEO and co-founder of Avvanz, which is a leading company in employee lifecycle management. Kannan has had a distinguished career, having worked for well-known names like First Advantage before setting up Avvanz. I'm really excited about this episode because Avvanz is a 125-person company that is scaling very quickly and has teams split between six different countries—very relevant for the topic at hand. Welcome to the show, Kannan! Would you like to say a few words to our audience?
Kannan Chettiar:
Yeah, thanks for having me. Good to interact with the audience, I hope. So, yeah, I believe you've already given me an introduction. I founded the company about eight years ago. Before that, I worked for multiple organizations in different parts of the world, mainly in commercial leadership positions, and mostly in tech companies. This background helped me to digitize this business, which otherwise could be very manual and human-intensive. So, yeah, I guess we'll talk more.
Yuying Deng:
Okay, looking forward to learning more about that. But to kick things off, can you tell us a bit more about your background? I understand that you worked in Canada before, and also for a period of time in the US. Let us know a bit about how you got started with your career and how you eventually founded Avvanz.
Kannan Chettiar:
Yeah, I was born and raised in Singapore. I graduated in 1996, which feels like a long time ago. I earned a Bachelor's degree with Honors in Electrical and Electronic Engineering. But during my studies, I realized that engineering wasn’t for me because I'm more of a people person.
Yuying Deng:
Not too far off from me!
Kannan Chettiar:
Yeah! Fortunately, before my final exams, I got a job in Montreal, which was very timely because, if you remember, the 1997 Asian financial crisis hit right after that. I studied in Singapore, but then there was a career talk for a Singapore-based position. I managed to work in and out of both Singapore and Montreal.
Yuying Deng:
Yes, the financial crisis. Were you studying in Montreal at that time as well?
Kannan Chettiar:
No, but my job title was “Sales Engineer,” which was perfect because I wanted to do sales, and I didn’t want to waste my engineering degree, which my dad worked hard to support. So, as a sales engineer, it made both of us happy. I started off selling electronic components to companies, OEMs, and the like. Then in the year 2000, if you remember, the IT boom hit, and everybody wanted to get into IT.
I managed to get a role at Dell Computers in regional account management. That’s how things started. Before the internet bubble burst, there was a lot of buzz in e-marketplaces, so I rode that wave with a company called E2, founded by IBM, based in Belmont, California. After that, I moved back and got into IT security software, managing global accounts for very large companies in contract manufacturing with a company called Arrow. Then I worked with another e-commerce marketplace company, and my career took off from there.
I’ve worked on global P&Ls and managed businesses at local, regional, and global levels. I think my international exposure helped frame my mindset that you always need to think globally, not just locally. Coming from a small island like Singapore, it’s essential to have a global mindset.
Later, I was head-hunted by First Advantage, the number one global background screening company. However, I saw a lot of opportunities to automate things. Although other background screening companies were interested in me, I wanted to build something on my own. I was already in my 40s and felt I only had one or two shots left, so I went for it. Luckily, I didn’t have to knock on many doors—people actually approached me to invest. That was quite interesting.
Yuying Deng:
People knocking on your doors instead.
Kannan Chettiar:
Yeah, and I think that deal was closed in a rooftop bar, which is the best place where people can think better. Or maybe I got them drunk, and that sealed the deal! This isn’t something we should probably talk about on a podcast, but that’s how it was. At least that’s how my first gig as an entrepreneur got started. From day one, I was thinking globally, and I think all my 20 years of technology experience, P&L experience, and international exposure—plus speaking multiple languages—helped. I put everything I knew into the company, and fortunately, I got lucky. They say nine out of ten startups fail, but for me, it was one out of one, which is great. Now, I’m more confident about starting new companies so I can be like yourself.
Yuying Deng:
I think you are definitely well on your way there, Kannan. You mentioned this international mindset—out of the 20-plus years you’ve been working, what percentage of that time was actually spent in global roles or based overseas?
Kannan Chettiar:
I think from my very first job, I was already working with global clients, which was fantastic. So, a major part of my experience has been with international clients, which meant lots of international travel—getting out there, meeting clients in different settings and regions. I was fortunate that most of my career involved managing global P&L and global clients, and I think that was a huge blessing.
Yuying Deng:
That leads us nicely into my next question. I know Avvanz has teams in the Philippines, Singapore, the UK, the US, Australia, and most recently, India. What inspired you to adopt this kind of distributed team setup? Was it something you started from the beginning, or did it evolve over time? And what benefits do you see in this approach?
Kannan Chettiar:
Right. In our business, we do background checks and due diligence. Even though there’s a lot of tech and automation involved, there’s still going to be a level of human interaction—for example, talking to a client. While my chatbot interacts with candidates and clients, people still want to speak with a real person. When we do a background check, aside from data-driven checks like criminal, financial, or social media, if it’s an employment or education check, someone still has to call the previous employer or the educational institution. It’s still people-focused. You can’t have chatbots handling that part, which is why I don’t believe AI and chatbots will completely replace human roles. I believe they will augment roles and allow us to focus on more intelligent work rather than replacing jobs entirely. That’s how we got started. We wanted people based on cost and talent considerations.
Yuying Deng:
So, still phone calls and all that will be involved.
Kannan Chettiar:
Exactly. In Asia, the main operational BPO (Business Process Outsourcing) capitals are India and the Philippines. In Europe, Krakow is a melting pot of talent. Being based in Singapore, it made sense to work with somewhere nearby. I felt very comfortable operating in the Philippines because I’ve managed talent there before. We have a large team of over 100 people in the Philippines for customer service and operations. India is where we handle IT development, but now we also have a development team in the Philippines. Different countries have different types of talent. We also have operations and client success teams, and with our recently opened India office, we’ve started expanding further.
Yuying Deng
So that's where your developers are based. Okay.
Kannan Chettiar:
...a backup workforce there as well due to BCP (Business Continuity Planning), right? In the other countries like the US, UK, and Australia, we only have sales consultants. Here in Singapore, we handle engineering, finance, and some sales as well since we manage a lot of large corporate accounts.
Yuying Deng:
Right. And in Singapore, it's similar too, correct? You have your leadership and sales teams here.
Kannan Chettiar:
Yes, exactly. Of course, putting people in countries like the Philippines and India also benefits us in terms of cost. I'd like to understand a bit more about that because, in countries like Singapore, wages are rising quickly, and if a task requires a person to do it, it can become expensive fast.
Yes, costs in Singapore are among the highest in the region. As a Singaporean, I want to support the local workforce, but as a small-to-medium enterprise, we have to be very mindful of our operating margins. Fortunately, automation helps increase our margins. I believe we have one of the highest margins in the region compared to other background screening companies. To maintain this level of operating margin, we need to source talent in more cost-effective countries, which is why places like the Philippines and India are of interest. They also offer the right talent, as they are call center capitals of the world.
Yuying Deng:
For sure. It's a reality that businesses in Singapore must face. Costs are increasing, and we can't avoid it.
Kannan Chettiar:
Exactly. Many other companies—banks, consulting firms, IT businesses—are doing the same. They're outsourcing and adopting hybrid work arrangements. I think the mindset has shifted. If employees are already working from home and connecting via Zoom or Teams, what difference does it make if they are based in Singapore, the Philippines, India, or Malaysia? Many companies have started hiring overseas because of this, a trend accelerated by COVID. Employees also prefer these flexible work setups now. In fact, when we recruit people, they often don't want to join if we require them to come into the office regularly. We'd have to pay a premium for that.
Yuying Deng:
Yes, you'd need to offer them a premium to come in.
Kannan Chettiar:
I can't be like Elon Musk and tell people, "If you don't want to come to the office, don't bother coming back." We don't have that kind of leverage. Also, during COVID, we started hiring from further away. For instance, in the Philippines, our office is in Ortigas, and we used to recruit people from within 10 kilometers of the office. But now we hire from all over the country, and with the traffic situation there, expecting people to commute for hours just isn't practical. This is why we transitioned to a hybrid setup.
We even gave up a large office and moved to a smaller one. In our business, cybersecurity is crucial, so we've implemented strong measures to ensure everything is handled securely. Even large call centers and BPOs (Business Process Outsourcing) have started to adopt these setups, and we've followed suit with hybrid work arrangements, where employees come to the office only twice a week.
Yuying Deng:
I agree with you. Many of our clients do the same, not just in India and the Philippines, but also in Vietnam, which has a dense developer population, and even Indonesia. It's an interesting phenomenon. I feel that policymakers in Singapore will need to monitor this because it impacts the competitiveness of local employees. Another question: leading a rapidly growing company with a distributed team must come with challenges. What are some of the biggest obstacles you've faced over the past eight years, and how did you overcome them?
Kannan Chettiar:
Of course, the ideal situation is to have everyone in one location so I can walk over to finance, HR, operations, or compliance teams whenever I need. But that's not practical anymore. Even in Singapore, people time their in-office days to Wednesday and Friday, and we go for drinks after work on Friday. Everyone has adapted to this new normal. Initially, it was challenging—especially with internet connectivity issues in some countries. It was so frustrating that I felt like hopping on a plane to fix things myself.
Yuying Deng:
The action-oriented boss!
Kannan Chettiar:
Yes, but we managed to adjust. Even before COVID, we started digitalizing. In fact, we were using platforms like Zoom before most people had even heard of them. I joke that I should have bought their stock! I always like to be an early adopter, not just for personal gadgets but also for business tools. In my previous companies, whenever a department wanted to launch something, they’d come to me. They knew I was willing to test things out. It's okay to fail in small ways, as long as you learn something new and come up with fresh ideas by trying new things.
Yuying Deng:
Yeah, I mean, you mentioned you had an AI chatbot, right? So you're riding the wave of AI as well?
Kannan Chettiar:
Yeah, actually, we had a dummy chatbot before, but it didn’t go well. Now, we've given birth to a new chatbot, and she’s still learning. She’s about one month old now and learns more every day. It’s not easy. Her name is Nina, and she can be found on the Avans.com website. We’ve had some challenges. I’ve read that many companies struggle to successfully implement chatbots. It’s not easy. Even large companies talk about it, but it’s not a straightforward project.
Yuying Deng:
For sure.
Kannan Chettiar:
Yes, and another thing is, finding a proper AI product is tough. About eight out of ten products advertised as AI chatbots aren’t AI at all. They’re just basic bots. It's frustrating when companies advertise as AI but don’t actually deliver. I was recently evaluating a well-known CRM that claimed to be AI-powered, but it was the same features I used with a different product 15 years ago. I had to tell the guy, "There is no AI here." He believed it was AI, but I had to explain to him that this wasn’t the case. So there’s a lot of noise in the market, which wastes our time. When implementing new technology, you have to see through the noise, persevere, and really know what you’re doing.
We’ve embraced AI internally, like using machine learning for social media checks, and we're implementing RPA and AI to do quality control on reports. Humans make errors; we’re not perfect. But machines, like those using machine learning, have a much lower error rate. They can do the work of multiple people and process data much faster.
Yuying Deng:
Repetitive work—machines excel at that.
Kannan Chettiar:
Yes, repetitive tasks fall under RPA, but machine learning can handle smarter work too. It's about embracing digitalization, especially with distributed teams. You asked earlier how we manage it all—well, we’ve started embracing more technologies. For example, we use a GPS-based attendance app to ensure people are within a certain distance from their workplace. I don’t mind where managers are working from—as long as the job gets done. But for junior staff, we use this to build discipline.
We also have a metaverse office. I have my own little office there with a putting green. The team sits at virtual tables, and when they want to take a break, they can go racing on a virtual track. We even bet on these races. Engaging remote teams virtually is critical. Everyone is connected via Google Chat, where we share jokes, comments, and have mini-games throughout the day. We’ve got a very mixed-age workforce—our youngest is 19, and our oldest is in their 60s.
Yuying Deng:
Wow, you really have a huge range of ages!
Kannan Chettiar:
Yes, and you have to engage them all differently. You can’t be an autocratic or dictatorial leader. I play and have fun with them—dancing, joking—even during monthly or quarterly meetings.
Yuying Deng:
I'm curious, do most people attend the metaverse office daily, or is it just certain people?
Kannan Chettiar:
No, everyone’s in the metaverse office. In fact, we’re considering opening a lobby for clients to visit us there. For now, we just want to get everything running smoothly. The cool thing is that you can interact with people as if you’re in a physical office. I can see when someone’s there, poke them, and their camera pops up for a chat. If we have a meeting, everyone walks to the virtual meeting room. There are even options to order virtual drinks and food. During town halls, I go up on a stage, and everyone gathers. It’s fun!
Yuying Deng:
What’s the name of the software you're using? I’m sure our listeners would be interested.
Kannan Chettiar:
It’s called Together, I believe. My IT team manages it, but I’m pretty sure that's the name. We’ll get you the exact details for the show notes. The important thing isn’t just having a great product—it’s knowing how to use it properly. Even the best smartphone is useless if you don’t know how to use its features.
Yuying Deng:
Right, and since you're in such a sensitive space with employment checks, I assume that’s why you've got all these controls in place?
Kannan Chettiar:
Yes, we take security very seriously, especially because we deal with regulated industries. We even monitor what people are downloading, and during an employee's first 30 days or last 30 days, we keep a close eye on their activity to ensure nothing suspicious is happening. Companies like banks and BPO service providers are also adopting similar controls now that so many people are working remotely.
Yuying Deng:
Yes, that makes sense.
Kannan Chettiar:
It’s all about keeping employees active and engaged. They need to feel a sense of belonging, which is why we invest in the metaverse and Google Chat, and we have twice-daily Zoom check-ins. We even have a war room where people can vent frustrations. Our monthly town halls are fun, and our quarterly town halls are held in person. If you follow my LinkedIn, you’ll see that.
Yuying Deng
For everybody in the company or just the leadership team?
Kannan Chettiar:
Everybody. The quarterly town halls are like hundreds of people gathering. For example, the recent one we had was a huge party. In fact, if you follow my LinkedIn, you’ll see that we constantly have parties. Some competitors even ask, "How come you guys are always partying?" But I say, you know what, this is so important, especially when you have people ranging from 19 to 62 years old. You have to engage everyone. And for me, because I have kids of that age—I’ve got a 16-year-old and a 22-year-old—I can relate to a similar age profile among my team members as well. So I think that’s what keeps us young and engaged. Sorry, that was a very long answer to your short question.
Yuying Deng:
No, no, I mean, this is great sharing! I think a lot of our listeners would appreciate it, especially those from sensitive industries like crypto or FinTech. They’d be interested to know about the kind of control measures you have in place. So, I think you’ve already answered my next question, which was going to be on company culture.
Another question, though: I believe that your teams in India and the Philippines are fully distributed, correct? So, with different areas within the same country, how do you handle onboarding and offboarding team members? It can be quite challenging, right? For instance, someone in Cebu trying to return a laptop to someone in Manila. What’s your process for bringing new team members on board, and how do you handle things like IT support and equipment?
Kannan Chettiar:
Yeah, so onboarding for us involves a few key things. One is, of course, the background checks. Those have to be cleared first; otherwise, you’re not getting access to the VPN or working on anything sensitive. So things like employment, criminal, social media, and global watchlist checks all need to be cleared.
Once that's done, our current process is that new employees come to the office in person for onboarding. They get their laptops, fully loaded with the necessary software, and also attend onboarding training. The training is a mix of virtual and in-person sessions. There’s also a lot of pre-recorded content they need to go through, mapped to their role. Every new joiner knows the roadmap for their first two years—what they need to complete as part of onboarding, monthly trainings, and learnings from global courses under our training arm, "Advance." We also have quarterly face-to-face sessions, and there's a strong emphasis on promoting from within. In fact, 98% of our leadership was promoted from within the company.
Yuying Deng:
Wow, so this is part of the entire onboarding journey?
Kannan Chettiar:
Yes, exactly. Every new employee knows they can work hard, perform well, and if they’re identified as high-potential, they can move up the ladder. Even though we’re not a huge company, we still have many levels, so people see a clear path for career growth. This motivates them right from the start.
Yuying Deng:
That's really impressive, having a clear career ladder from the beginning.
Kannan Chettiar:
Yes, we value career progression and training. And once they return to their homes after onboarding, we provide IT support. We were struggling a bit with that at first, but now we’re rolling out "e-Saver" to remotely manage devices. So, employees don’t have to come back to the office for every issue. We’re also implementing an IT helpdesk chatbot soon, which will handle typical queries like "my computer is freezing"—and you know the solution is often just a reboot, right? Nine out of ten times, that’s the answer! So, the chatbot will take care of that, leaving the IT team to focus on more complex issues.
Yuying Deng:
It sounds like it’s going to make things a lot more efficient.
Kannan Chettiar:
Yes, definitely. But there are still challenges, especially with hardware-related issues. For example, we once had a case in the U.S. where a candidate didn’t return their laptop. It was scary, but thankfully, we could disable all access and wipe the data remotely through our VPN. Still, in countries like the U.S. and U.K., it can be pretty nerve-wracking when someone runs off with company equipment.
Yuying Deng
Very common actually. Yes.
Kannan Chettiar:
Which is why now with E-Cel, I think it should be a lot easier to manage this.
In countries like the US and the UK, it can be quite scary when people run away with company laptops. I've heard about other companies struggling with that. But now, with this technology, we should be able to remotely manage and retrieve everything, including deployment and collecting the laptops. Of course, the software part will still likely be managed by our own IT team due to the sensitivity involved.
Kannan Chettiar:
So, yeah, you're right. We serve a lot of large brands. Our 4,000+ clients represent multiple industries, whether it's banking, finance, education, oil and gas, manufacturing, retail, even casino gaming and ministries. It's a very industry-agnostic service.
Why? Because you never really know who you're hiring. You don't know what you don't know. If you've seen movies like Catch Me If You Can or Inventing Anna, you’ll understand. It's clear that thorough background checks could have prevented a lot of problems. In Inventing Anna, she managed to fool her way through without anyone verifying anything—even banks. These are real stories, so thorough background checking is critical.
Out of every 10 profiles we see, three to five have discrepancies—whether it's inflated credentials, fake degrees (which is a big problem), or a disturbing social media footprint. This is why thorough background checks have become essential for any company.
Kannan Chettiar:
I’ve experienced this first-hand as a hiring manager and supervisor in previous companies—at least twice. At that time, I didn’t know such technology or services were available until I joined First Advantage. It was a big eye-opener. I wish I had known about it earlier. There are still many companies that don’t realize these services exist, which is why we focus on thought leadership and educating companies about the importance of background checks.
Yuying Deng:
Yeah, it's particularly important because of remote hiring now, right? As you were saying, many companies are hiring overseas, so this issue is only going to become more problematic.
Kannan Chettiar:
Exactly. That’s where IDVT (Identity Verification Technology) becomes essential. We use this technology on our platform. For example, in the UK, you can click on one ID, and it will verify your identity against all banking accounts to confirm that you are who you say you are. In the US, we use IDVT technology from a company called ID Partners. This became especially important during COVID, as there were cases where remote onboarding resulted in hiring people who weren’t qualified or even real.
There’s also the issue of fake interviewing. Sometimes, someone else attends the interview on behalf of the candidate. For example, someone who looks like me (or maybe even better looking) could do the interview, but when the actual person shows up for the job, they can’t deliver.
Yuying Deng:
Especially in technical interviews, right?
Kannan Chettiar:
Exactly. In fact, we even had a case where a twin sister attended the interview, aced it, and got the job offer. But when the other sister showed up to work, she couldn’t deliver on what was promised during the interview.
Yuying Deng:
So, the person who was actually hired was the other sister?
Kannan Chettiar:
Not in our case, but it happened with one of our clients. We advised them to do proper background checks and use IDVT to ensure they were hiring the right person. Once you use IDVT, you can confirm the identity and proceed with onboarding.
Yuying Deng:
Okay, got it.
Kannan Chettiar:
So, identity verification isn’t just for twins. We've also seen fake supervisors give glowing reviews of candidates. You can actually pay someone around $150 (or more post-COVID) to pretend to be your HR supervisor and give a fantastic performance review.
Yuying Deng:
So this is for a candidate applying for a job, and they hire someone to be their reference?
Kannan Chettiar:
Yes, exactly. That’s why we verify the authenticity of the HR or supervisor provided. We make sure to call the company’s main office to confirm the supervisor’s name and check their credentials. If you’re doing this yourself, it’s important to take that step, as we’ve seen many cases where the HR or supervisor is just a friend or even a boyfriend. People are desperate to get the right job, so it’s important to verify that the references are genuine.
Yuying Deng:Well, it's good to know that such things exist. It reminds me almost of the Chinese New Year—hiring a boyfriend to show to your aunties kind of a scam.
Kannan Chettiar:In Japan as well, right? You can hire companions to go and visit your parents and all that. I mean, that's a fact. Speaking of that topic, we even have B2C hiring, where people come in asking to verify their future spouses. This is especially popular in arranged marriages in India. Even for someone you've met, people want to verify authenticity. We check with the person to see if they’re really qualified and if they really work in the company. However, we tell them that we can only do that with signed consent uploaded to the platform. Otherwise, it would be a data privacy violation. Even if it's a social media check, we still want to get the signed consent. I don’t know how they'll handle the conversation if they've been dating for a year.
Yuying Deng:Okay, this is something that you offer.
Kannan Chettiar:Yes, we need to do a verification on you, right? I think it’s a difficult conversation. It’s very important because we have seen so many cases of scams and fake identities. Nowadays, with bank accounts, there are so many cases of educated people falling for scams. There are so many love scams; I think every other day, we read about them in the papers. People are very vulnerable.
Yuying Deng:Just need to make sure that you are who you say you are.
Kannan Chettiar:Yes. That’s the hard part, but we are not going to compromise on that because if the guy comes after us, there’s a potential lawsuit. That’s why we even talked to some of the matching platforms and told them there is this service where we could do the verification, and they can embed this into their system. We already do that with some recruitment platforms now.
Yuying Deng:You mentioned that there are matching platforms that have this service.
Kannan Chettiar:Yes, some matching platforms want to use our service to vet people. They will have a badge indicating that this person has been vetted. We have already started doing that for some document platforms. Only vetted people will actually be included. In fact, they will enjoy better ratings and be pushed higher in the algorithm, making them more likely to be selected by potential employers.
Yuying Deng:
Yeah, that’s interesting.
Yuying Deng:
So Kannan, I have a question that I really want to ask you. Given your experience—running Avvanz for eight years and scaling it up to about 125 people—not just within Singapore, but really geographically as well—how do you find that your role as a founder has evolved as the company has grown?
Kannan Chettiar:
Yeah. Overt told me that after three to five years, you can take a rest. If I see that person, I would literally punch them in the face. Sorry, I’m not violent! I just think that every stage comes with different challenges, right? When I started the business, I was going from a stable paycheck to flying business class, then downgrading to the cheapest budget flights. There were a lot of adjustments—plenty of adjustments.
The first two to three years were really tough, especially in our business, which involves liability. Background checking is a very high-risk and compliance-heavy task and service. Many companies are hesitant to use a young company because they worry it might close down in a year. That’s why the first two years were particularly tough. Then, unfortunately, COVID came along.
Yuying Deng:
Yes.
Kannan Chettiar:
So out of the eight years, we can probably write off four years. Essentially, we’re a four-year-old company. As we grow, we grow our workforce and our technology. We want to be on the cutting edge. Of course, we have the fantastic advantage of being nimble and flexible. When you work for large companies, anything you submit for approval takes weeks or months. Here, I can approve things within a day and get them done for clients. For example, one of the large telcos came to us and said they wanted customization. The next day, I said, "Let’s do it," and the following week, we went live.
That kind of fast flexibility is something that a lot of large corporates have started appreciating. Many of our clients used to work with larger screening companies but have begun switching to us. This means you also face the pressure of having bigger logos—some of the largest consulting companies, telcos, and banks—all coming to you. Your bar keeps getting higher and higher.
But I think if you have passion for the product and believe in it, and if you focus on solving the client's problems—not just on yourself or your company—then you’ll be able to deliver. The revenue will just come. If you focus solely on revenue, it becomes very difficult, right? But if you concentrate on the problems you’re going to solve and how to solve them faster, more compliantly, and more efficiently than your competitors, you’re set.
Yuying Deng:
So that has remained true from the beginning until now, right?
Kannan Chettiar:
From day one, yes. It’s always been about pain points and problems.
It’s never about us; it’s about understanding your problems, the potential issues you face, and how we can help. The traditional selling method is “feel, found.” I feel you; many have felt the same problem, and now they have found this solution with our service. It’s a classic approach, but it works.
As long as your focus is on solving problems, making life easier for clients, and improving processes, your product will evolve accordingly. When I started the business, I was sleepless and panicky because I had a family to take care of and no regular paycheck. I would wake up in cold sweats with my heart racing. Now, I don’t sleep because I’m just so excited.
Yuying Deng:
You have a giant logo coming in tomorrow.
Kannan Chettiar:
Giant logos are part of it, but it’s also the excitement because your best ideas actually come to you at two times: once when you’ve had a drink and are a bit high (trust me, I’m not a drunkard; I’ll put a disclaimer on that!) and the second time is in the middle of the night.
Yuying Deng:
Now I think I know you a bit better, Kannan.
Kannan Chettiar:
It’s unfortunate! You can see all the lines on my face because I don’t sleep well. It’s not good, and I’m learning to sleep better now. I’m starting to get a solid five to six hours, but I came a long way from only getting three to four hours. I used to wake up disturbed and quickly type out my ideas, fearing I would forget them by morning. I even have a whiteboard for brainstorming. The best ideas come when you’re excited. Even after eight years, I’m still so excited.
Yuying Deng:
It’s like a dream kind of thing.
Kannan Chettiar:
Exactly! There are so many ideas, so much to do, so many geographies to cover, and so many market opportunities. The space is growing with our new due diligence solutions. Now companies can conduct due diligence on their partners, vendors, clients, and investment companies via EFER or M&A. There’s so much work to do, and that’s what makes this exciting. I think, as a fellow CEO and co-founder, you understand that the fun part of this job is the evolving product, the evolving business, and the challenges that come with it. You face headwinds and tailwinds, and you move forward. We are fortunate to be in this position.
If one day I were to exit and sell the company, and someone would hire me as a senior member of their team, I wonder if I would enjoy the same level of passion and excitement. All the companies I’ve worked for before have given me awards and recognition because I’ve always pushed myself to be at the forefront. I’m a very competitive person. But I think it’s different when you’re playing your own sport; it feels different.
Yuying Deng:
Maybe it’s a bit like having your own baby versus taking care of someone else’s child.
Yuying Deng:
Is it fair to say, Kannan, that the stress, or rather the challenges, have evolved? In the beginning, they were more existential, but now that we know we have a proper core business generating good revenues and cash flow, we face new challenges. Now it’s about identifying opportunities and determining which ones to focus on.
Kannan Chettiar:
Yes, opportunities. The other challenge is ensuring your edge over competitors who are racing behind you. You have to continually innovate. For example, we’re about to launch version 3.0 of our platform. It’s all about keeping your uniquely competitive differentiators (UCDs), which I believe are more powerful than typical USPs, to stay ahead of competitors. You have to constantly innovate, think creatively, and get better. That’s the other aspect that evolves. Now it’s not just about the bread and butter; it’s about being the clear number one. That’s what keeps me awake at night. That’s how it evolves.
Yuying Deng
It's a better problem to have, I would say. Problems never go away. You just have better quality problems.
Kannan Chettiar:
It's a better problem to have. Of course, it's still a good day today, firefighting and all that, but I think I like my... Obviously, there are always escalations back to me, but my people know that they have to deliver. Everyone has a performance card. Everybody understands Stephen Covey's rocks versus gravel versus sand versus water. Everyone knows what the stones or the rocks to prioritize are, right? So I think it's a fun journey, but it just evolves. Every day is a different day.
Most importantly, I think CEOs have to learn; it's lifelong learning. Every day, you have to learn something new. Since I started the business, I began learning about blockchain and even have a ledger for that verification. I started learning very hard about AI, and today I'm out there training companies under our training arm on how to digitalize, how to incorporate RPA and AI into their technology, and how to look at their assets and their future digital vision.
I'm also focusing on how to scale that to get there. Now I'm starting to share knowledge, not just in talks and keynotes, but also in training form. I think that's very fun because you also learn from other companies and industries. I always tell my people to replace their Netflix time with 30 minutes of self-learning. I mean, I also watch Netflix before I go to bed, but I like to allocate at least 30 minutes to do some self-learning because that’s how you keep your brain active and updated.
Yuying Deng:
Okay, well, good to know, Kannan. This has been a really enjoyable conversation. I've learned a lot from you, even more than when we had lunch together. In particular, I've learned that you have to evolve as a CEO. The challenges I'm facing today will probably be quite different from the challenges I’ll face in the future. But one thing that will remain the same is that there will always be challenges. We just have to keep learning and evolving as we go along.
So, Kannan, thank you so much for joining us today at Scaling Today. Can you tell our listeners where they can find you?
Kannan Chettiar:
It took me a while, but I'm active on LinkedIn, which is where I mostly am. On other social media platforms, I'm not really that active. I treat LinkedIn as my meta, my ex, as my main platform because I post personal stuff there. I always notice that every time I post personal content, the impressions and likes boom. Anything company, business, or industry-related usually has a slow climb. So I know people actually look at LinkedIn as their new meta.
Yuying Deng:
LinkedIn and Twitter. I know that you are active on LinkedIn, right? I'm not sure whether you're active on X.
Kannan Chettiar:
Or is it new X, or is it new Y? Yeah, that's where you can usually find me.
Yuying Deng:
I agree with you on that. Yes.
Yuying Deng:
Okay, all right. Thank you so much, Kannan. Kannan, just stay on.
Kannan Chettiar:
Thank you.
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